Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) is no stranger to nominating the richest of the rich. Along with Representative Ro Khanna (D-CA), Sanders recently introduced the Act to Make Billionaires Pay Their Fair Share, 5 percent annual wealth tax on anyone in the United States worth more than a billion dollars.
The action would affect 930 people – a peak of 0.01 percent. Elon Musk will have about $42 billion in debt per year. Mark Zuckerberg would owe $11 billion.
And what would this new wealth tax fund do?
In its first year, according to Sanders’ proposal, it would provide a direct payment of $3,000 to every American in a household earning $150,000 or less, and subsequent revenues would be used to address “disadvantages facing working families.”
While the bill has essentially no chance of passing the House in the near future, it could be a major test for Democratic presidential candidates in 2028. Vox’s Astead Herndon sat down with Sanders for Today, It’s Explained to ask him about how the tax works, as well as about some of the most pressing issues of the moment: how Democrats should navigate the AI landscape, Sanders’ call for a moratorium on the construction of new AI data centers, and President Donald Trump’s latest strike on Iran.
The following is part of their conversation, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full podcast, so listen to Today, Explained wherever you get the podcast, including Apple Podcasts, Pandoraand Spotify.
You can also watch Saturday’s interview this week and every week on Vox’s YouTube channel. Register on youtube.com/vox.
Many Democrats have condemned the US and Israeli attacks on Iran, but Donald Trump is pushing ahead. Is there any help from Congress?
What we have to do is pull the financial plug here. I think what we have to do with all our power is to say that not only is this war illegal, not only is it illegal, (but) when we have a lot of domestic energy needs in terms of housing and health care and education, we will just be throwing tens of billions of dollars into another endless war.
I think looking at how we finance war is one of the areas we should move to. But the bottom line is that we must do everything we can to stop Trump’s careless foreign policy, which is not only unconstitutional, not going to Congress, (but) it is a violation of international law and will lead, in my opinion, to international chaos.
You and Congressman Khanna introduced this bill that would increase the annual wealth tax by 5 percent on anyone making more than a billion dollars. And most importantly, this is a wealth tax, not an income tax. Things like property and stockpiling are also used. Why $1 billion?
We wanted to make it clear that today we have more income and wealth equality than we have ever had in American history. We all read about the Age of Life, right? Nickels and dimes compared to where we are right now.
We live in a time where the top 1 percent owns more wealth than the bottom 93 percent, where one man, Elon Musk, owns more wealth than the bottom 53 percent of American households, where, while 60 percent of our people live paycheck to paycheck, the billionaire class has seen its wealth increase by a trillion and a half dollars since Trump was elected.
The point is that when there is so much inequality, we have to ask the wealthiest people to start paying their share of taxes. One way to do this is through property taxes. Personally I think starting at a billion dollars is the right way to go.
The revenue goal is to send $3,000 checks to every American in a household earning $150,000 or less. Should I see this as a way to fund a form of universal basic income?
Nope. It does two things: It says that at a time when the very rich are getting richer, when ordinary Americans today are struggling to put food on the table or pay for childcare or pay for health care, the working class of this country needs urgent help.
In addition, we make huge investments every year in child care, in housing, in education, in health care, in addressing the basic needs of working-class Americans. And yet all things being equal, our children will have a lower standard of living than we will, and millions of families are struggling.
All of our people should have a good standard of living, and we have to deal with a high level of income and wealth equity to do that.
France tried the property tax and abolished it. Sweden tried one, scrapped it, and European countries that have fallen behind have almost always said it was because capital left, or evasion meant they didn’t see the necessary returns. Why wouldn’t that be true in America?
I think we need to enact that law, and then we need a political movement to ensure that it is implemented.
That is a very high level.
One of the things that bothers me the most is what you say, Look, even if the American people want it, these guys will get away with it one way or another. What? is that what you say?
Some countries have abolished property taxes because of the problem.
I was in California a few weeks ago where they are dealing with state property taxes. The issue is that 15 million people, including many in California and Vermont, have been thrown out of the health care they have in order to provide trillions of dollars in tax cuts to the 1 percent.
What do the one percent say, You want us to pay more taxes so that working class people and children can get health care? If you get past that, you know what we’re going to do. We’ll move to Texas, we’ll move to Florida.
It is too late that we stand up against greed and say, no, that is not an option. You are in America, you benefited from America, you are part of America. You have no divine right to rule and you follow the law, and if we pass this tax, you will pay.
You have called for a moratorium on AI data center construction. I spoke to your partner Ro Khanna about this, and he disagreed about it. Why do you think now is the time to stop data centers?
I don’t think a moratorium is the solution to all problems. I think it’s the right thing to do now, and here’s why. What I’ve been really wondering is that I go abroad and talk to people and say, well, what do you think about AI and robotics? Are you worried about it?
I talk to a lot of working class audiences and they say, Bernie, we really care. I’m going back to the United States Senate, and you know what? It is very difficult to do anything about it. No law has yet been passed, so the separation is five miles wide.
Who is pushing AI and robotics? The richest people in the world. Elon Musk. Zuckerberg, Bezos, Ellison, Altman, Bill Gates.
The very first question we have to ask ourselves is, do you think these people who are investing huge amounts of money in AI and robotics, will change our economy? Do they stay up all night worrying about you and your family?
They want more wealth and they want more power. And when these people already have a lot of wealth and power, when they buy elections, I worry about that and what it means for our democracy.
Issue number two, people disagree because no one knows what the effects of AI and robots will mean for our economy.
Some people say, look, you had the Industrial Revolution. People were farmers, they work in factories. No big deal.
I don’t agree with that. I think what you’re looking at now is going to go faster and faster than any other economic change.
Looking at the next Democratic presidential nominee, I think your top priority might be Medicare for All, but are there two other policies you’d like the nominee to support?
First of all, we should know how we remain a democracy. And it’s not just Donald Trump, who is an authoritarian and undermines democracy. It’s money in politics.
You talked about AI, right? Do you know why there is no AI control right now? It’s because the AI industry is organized and spends hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. If you want to run for Congress, and you want to stand up and say, I’m really worried about AI, they’re going to pour millions of dollars against you.
You have to deal with the People’s Union in creating a democratic society. You need, in my opinion, public funding of elections. So maintaining democracy is important, dealing with Trump’s dictatorship is very important, and you have to deal with this oligarchy issue.
In terms of the needs of the American people, why are we the only major country that does not guarantee universal health care as a human right? That takes you to Medicare for All. You have to deal with the AI and its effects.
This is a very difficult and unprecedented time in American history, and I think elected officials in many ways are far behind where the American people are in terms of their willingness to protect them, not just the 1 percent.
