If you are A WIRED reader who uses AI in any creative context, I would recommend staying far, far away from anyone involved in a TV show Hacking. In an interview earlier this year, actress Hannah Einbinder (who plays young comedy writer Ava Daniels on the show) described AI creators as “lost,” “not artists,” and “not special.”
The show’s producers couldn’t agree more. In a broad conversation to Great Interview in front of Hacking series finale on HBO Max, Paul W. Downs and Lucia Aniello were adamant about the value of human creativity—and what can be lost when AI enters the picture.
If their work continues Hacking any indication, Downs and Aniello (along with their third producer, Jen Statsky) would be wise to stick to the hard, boring, no-shortcuts approach they use to make entertainment. In the top five seasons—if you haven’t seen the show, I highly recommend it—Hacking has been praised for its sharp and witty writing, and its brilliant portrayal of Deborah Vance and Ava’s complex, ever-changing relationship. The show has also served as a mirror to the real-world entertainment industry, creating debates that cover everything from media consolidation to corporate control to, yes, artificial intelligence.
The cast and creators of the show have been in a media whirlwind as everything comes to an end. (If you continue to see Hacking feed on your Instagram feed, trust me, you’re not alone.) When they came knocking on WIRED’s door, we jumped at the chance to chat, and I was lucky enough to spend an hour with Downs and Aniello—both WIRED subscribers, to my delight—earlier this month. Here is our conversation.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
KATIE DRUMMOND: Lucia Aniello and Paul Downs, who I just learned are married, congratulations and welcome Great Interview.
LUCIA ANIELLO: Thank you very much.
PAUL W. BELOW: You should have been there. You should have been there.
Angelo: Ugh, why didn’t we bring it? That’s crazy. Next time. We will renew for our 10 years in the same place though.
Where was the wedding?
Angelo: It was in Italy. It was in Tuscany. That’s all I’ll say.
Limitations: Lucia was born in Italy, so it was close to many families.
And what year did you get married?
Angelo: 2021.
So I have time, like another five years…
Limitations: You have time to get your shape. Don’t stress.
A big priority for me in my life is to improve my appearance. It’s very important to us at WIRED, to have our perspective down.
Angelo: Style first, that’s WIRED. That’s you, right?
We work at Condé Nast, and my boss is Anna Wintour. So “style first” has become more of a priority for me than it used to be. It’s like “third style,” you know?
Limitations: The third style. I like that.
My husband and I went through a bunch of season 5 of Hacking this weekend. I am happy to talk to you about this episode, and I want to start by talking about women, a subject very close to my heart, because I am one. But I also run a magazine that was run by men for many years.
I am surrounded by men. They are everywhere in my life. They are everywhere in our coverage. And this show I love, in particular, because it focuses on this relationship between these two women, who are very powerful in different ways in their own right, and they have this very complicated relationship with this huge generation gap.
